and, of course, the romney campaign emphasizing that paul ryan is a guy who hasn't had a debate, maybe since high school. so he's debating against joe biden. >> debated -- we've tried to debate ryan here and we've seen him debate with other people, and he's -- i don't know. >> eamon, what about ohio, though? we've talked with chuck todd about this. he sees a way to win without ohio. but basically have to win eight or nine other states. so it's a much more complicated road to the white house if you don't win ohio. so he had said -- he told us a week or two ago that romney would have to make a decision as to whether the pull out of ohio and go for the other states. >> on a couple of polls. >> yeah, it's off the table at this point. >> that's got to be off the table right now. ohio is the linchpin for everything in this campaign. that's why the president was there yesterday. you saw the president leading in o-h-i-o cheer. he needs the college kids to come through for him. he needs the urban cities in ohio to turn out with big, big numbers. otherwise this thing gets very tricky for the pre